I mean, really, who cares?

I guess I’m NOT the only one to feel as I do after all:

“I suspect Primaz has been over at the SFGate article sowing his usual brand of Psion-centric anti-OQO rhetoric as “primadonna” or perhaps “MobileSalesMan” or perhaps both.

I for one, really wish Primaz would just get himself a Sharp Willcom D4 and leave us all alone. We’ve listened to his endless rants, and heard his arguments. I don’t agree and believe most here don’t.

This forum is for OQO enthusiasts or at a the very least disgruntled OQO owners. Do us all a favor, get a Willcom and go complain, or not, on their forum.”

http://www.oqotalk.com/index.php/topic,2392.15.html

So there we have it, it appears your agenda is not to be a mobilesaleman (or woman? ) but an “all-over-the-web-with-101-aliases-complainer”!

So I’ll try to live up to my words now and start ignoring your “endless rants” to quote the OQOtalk forum members!

You sure hide behind a multitude of names
What’s the reason for so many ALiases?

If you’re going to “hide” you need to be less opinionated, and use the copy & paste less

How can that be, this is the keyboard that will bring “salvation” to the UMPC sector by your own comments!?

>As far as OQO, this article listed a sales number and if you just do simple math..

As I’ve stated before and as I will state again OQO has NEVER confirmed (nor denied) ANY sales figures. The only number that SFGate published was “more than $20 million in sales” doesn’t say and EXACT number, nor from when the figure was taken, the article is from close to a YEAR AGO, and most likely based on numbers from 2006 that could be dug up by anyone, since OQO isn’t sharing their units sold figures with the public!

As for your comment about “simple math” I’m not sure what type of reports it is you run at your place of employment but anyone who is familiar with the OQO company and product knows all too well that the majority of the products have NOT been sold to CONSUMERS at RETAIL prices, but to corporate customers buying in bulk and to resellers, hence there’s no “simple math” here!

>on a form factor unchanged and marketed for 8 years.

Where’s your SIMPLE MATH when you CAN use it?!?

OQO 01 released October 14 2004

2008 Oct – 2004 Oct = 4 years + Nov, Dec, Jan = 4 Years 3 months

As for the intial OQO proto shown it was similar to the OQO 01 but NO KEYBOARD, so not the same form factor.

But hey since the point was that TOUCH TYPE keyboards and not thumb boards is what will make the UMPC market sell like crazy, not how big or not OQO is. Bottomline is OQO is one of the strongest contenders within the UMPC market at this point in the 4-5″ screen TRUELY POCKETABLE size, however you twist it.

If you listen to UMPCportal’s podcast during the CES you will hear my own comments about the OQO being outdated for me personally from an HW point of view, it hit me later that day that it is actually remarkable that OQO can show the same exact (ok 99%) HW as they did in 2007 at CES and actually get such attention as they did, and WITHOUT A BOOTH at that. Show me another device that looks just like it did at CES 2007 from CES 2009 that got ANY attention like this So I think OQO were pioneers beyond anyone else and deserves credit for that BIG TIME.

Now you want touch type keyboards, I don’t (on my pocketable) only on a Netbook, and that’s that no need to consider one device or the other (or it’s users) better or worse for it, agreed?? Also there’s million and one other factors that play into what actually hits the market or/and makes it big, anyone who has ever had ANYTHING developed and marketed or/and sold will tell you this.

Article about OQO

I do own the Sharp and while I like the portability, I do not like the keyboard. The screen is remarkably clear and easy to view the real flaw is the keyboard and low battery life which is workable but not ideal with the extended battery. To me there is still a lot lacking in the UMPC market as far as a more useful form factor and that is why I think the sales are so small.

As far as OQO, this article listed a sales number and if you just do simple math and be ultra conservative by using the average sale of $1300 when in reality most users probably bought accessories or added features to their order which often can make an OQO $1500- $2K +; 20 million divided by 1300 gives an annual sales of only 15,384. and if you assume accessories, etc. that number can go easily down to 8,000 per year. Hopefully they are still profitable but those are pretty small numbers on a form factor unchanged and marketed for 8 years.

John,

I do think the Samsung SPH p9200 would be the perfect UMPC for me as well as many others. I just wished they were available for purchase in the US or if someone would just copy that design and sell them in US and Europe.

I just think UMPC’s have the potential to be huge but not without some more innovative form factors that enable them to be used in place of a laptop with a size when folded can be carried in a large pocket with not bag needed.

“I want the mobile computer to have a touch type keyboard as I often need to generate reports, proposals and work with other programs where text input via my thumbs is very uncomfortable. I would love to see a UMPC enable me to do this in a form factor like the old handhelds so that I would not need to lug a laptop everywhere.”

Yet states:
“This is the only UMPC thus far with a good form factor to be a good mobile business computer.”
http://www.slashphone.com/willcom-d4-ws016sh-umpc-with-centrino-atom-processor-14180

” I just went to Conics.net and ordered the D4 with two extended batteries.
August 31, 2008 at 01:18 PM” (Sharp Willcom D4)
http://www.pocketables.net/2008/08/review-willcom.html

“There are millions whom would love it without the wireless but if it could load any GSM sim then this would be flying off the shelfs all over the world!” (see Slashphone link above)

I’d be curious to how many MILLIONS of these units were sold in the past quarter or so with the holidays and all? if this is what the “masses” and “millions” truely would be looking for I’d expect they would’ve swapped out the Japan only WWAN HW for some international one by now soon to be a YEAR after first showing it?!

Oh don’t get me wrong MY favorite device I’m typing on is in fact a FULL QWERTY keyboard device made in Japan by Sharp ironically, and I wouldn’t mind the D4 myself except for size and a lot of (for me) wasted space around the screen. Point being however that a “touch type” keyboard on an UMPC just isn’t the missing link for full success of UMPCs.

I think the only Ultra Mobile/sub-laptop type device that would satisfy you would be something similar to the Samsung SPH-9000/SPH-9200. Full size keyboard (that folds up behind the screen), but mobile tablet display. And that’s assuming you wouldn’t find the display to be too small.

Unfortunately, as I said earlier, that device is only found in S. Korea. I think a 8.9″ or 10″ screen version of the SPH-9200 would be compelling for a lot of people.

Or maybe a version of the HTC Shift that was big enough to have a laptop sized keyboard (and _no_ bigger), and that had an Atom or C7 CPU.

Either way, though, it requires something that doesn’t currently exist.

I get the sense both names are americanized names…

You don’t have problems with making public what you think of others who think differently than yourself:
“why don’t the other companies realize only geeks want to use their thumbs, especially with full Windows!.”

http://www.wireless-weblog.com/50226711/leaked_info_on_samsung_wibro_sphp9200_umpc.php

FYI, OQO has never released/confirmed/denied any sales figures (I know this as I’ve tried to get some for a project in the past). That’s the facts.

One figure that has been confirmed is that WOOT sold 250 units of the 01+ in NINE HOURS so it’s quite obvious the demand would be there if/when price and other things would be “in place”

Why did you not just buy the Sharp D4 you were so “in love” with when it came out, you yourself were saying it was everything you’d been waiting for!?

I am not trying to create a fight but I will attempt to be more specific.

For me I need a full desktop OS to run applications for work only available for that OS; they are not able to work on linux or MAC. I want the mobile computer to have a touch type keyboard as I often need to generate reports, proposals and work with other programs where text input via my thumbs is very uncomfortable. I would love to see a UMPC enable me to do this in a form factor like the old handhelds so that I would not need to lug a laptop everywhere.

You mentioned OQO and they and a few others proved that the technology is here right now to enable my dream computer but there is not one nor has ever one been created thus far. As far as OQO I read a local SF article which stated their sales and if you divide that by the lowest to moderate price configuration all you get is 8-15,000 units sold a year. I think the problem is just like my personal opinion of a full OS computer to me and others would be ideally to replace a laptop. To do that most whom need a laptop have to type a lot periodically so thumb keys would never work well.

I think UMPC’s are a great technology but all I am saying is that thus far they have not been that popular and to me yes my opinion is that it is the lack of an adequate form factor that is jacket pocket in size that prevents many people like me from wanting to buy one.

As far as what I was refering to about this picture, I meant the left and right sides of the keyboard. If the computer stopped at the keyboard and did not have those sloped sides which seem to waste a lot of space then I would think the design would be more compact and thus make it potentially easier to fit in a large pocket. Yes I want something not available nor has ever been created but I do see it as a large market and something more natural as a mobile form factor especially when the most people like the form of a laptop. Thus a pocket laptop but one that is long enough to have a good keyboard would seem the best use of this great new UMPC technology enabling a full laptop power to shrink into something so small as an OQO?

Anyhow yes it is very true that there is serious confusion or overlap if you want in the usage of UMPC vs. MID etc.

But since AFAIK Intel initiated the use of these terms, how about we let them define them, which they did about a year ago at CeBit:

“UMPC

* Business-class device for enterprise users
* Runs a “heavy” OS like Vista
* Optimized for office-use applications like Excel, Word, etc.

MID

* Consumer-class lifestyle device
* Runs a ‘lightweight” OS with quick startup like Linux
* Optimized for things like media playback and web surfing
* In 2009 (or so) Moorestown-based devices will be classed as MIDs only”

From here:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/10/intel-explains-mid-vs-umpc/

As for UMPCs they were supposed to be 8″ and smaller screened devices.

As we know a year ago Bill Gates introduced the OQO 02 in his keynote at CES 2007, this was then referred to as an UMPC, since it’s a FULL OS and under 8″ etc etc, despite it not having “regular” touch screen.

While MIDs
“The MID is a larger form factor than a smartphone but smaller than the Ultra Mobile PC (UMPC). As such, the device has been described as filling a consumer niche between smartphones and Tablet PCs”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Internet_Device

Where I was pointing out: the fact that the walmart special is “cheap” isn’t good enough. It’s still “big” (within the realm of modern mobile devices). And specifically “too big” for me. So I was disagreeing with JM.

And, to some extent, you’re right. I’ve used an UMPC, I’ve used two MIDs, and I’ve used a Netbook. And, what I find myself wanting is a convertible tablet Netbook. I gives me the tablet aspects of an UMPC and MID, and it gives me some of the more conventional aspects of a laptop, just smaller. I definitely don’t want to carry something the size of a 12″+ laptop.

As for UMPC vs Netbook … I don’t think the terms have really retained a distinction. For me, a Netbook is a subcategory of the larger “Ultra Mobile Devices” category. MIDs are also a subcategory in the “Ultra Mobile Devices” categoy. As are UMPCs. Which one is a superset or subset of overlapping set of the others depends on who you talk to. I seem to recall that recently Intel said that they consider UMPCs to be a subset of MIDs… which is completely out of whack with what I consider an UMPC and a MID.

For me, a MID is pocketable, with a desktop-ish/desktop-based OS, Wifi, and isn’t a phone (it might have WWAN for data, but not for non-VOIP voice calls, and I haven’t seen one yet that directly does SMS or MMS messaging … just indirectly via an IM protocol) (I don’t know whether or not there are any laptop shaped MIDs, but I don’t know that I would disqualify something from being a MID based on that). An UMPC is like a MID except that it is not pocketable, it has a screen between the size of a MID and a Laptop (for me, laptop is 12″+ screen size; so 5 or 7″ screen up to 10 or 11″ screen), and is not the shape of a laptop (it’s a tablet based design, like the OQO, Sony’s UX, or Samsung’s Q1/Q1U/Q1UP family), desktop-ish OS, Wifi, optional WWAN for data only. A Netbook is like an UMPC (not pocketable, 7ish-10ish” screen, desktop-ish OS, Wifi, optional WWAN for data only), except that it IS laptop shaped. A convertible tablet netbook, like the EeePC T91, is probably best described as being a hybrid of the UMPC and Netbook groups … or, if you consider the UMPCs to include laptop-shaped devices, then it’s just a variation within the UMPC group, as all Netbooks would be (under that assumption).

So, for me, none of them is strictly a subset of the others; each occupies its own niche (MIDs == small, UMPCs == medium tablets, Netbooks == medium clamshells), and the T91 is a hybrid UMPC/Netbook. For Intel, all of the above are subsets of MIDs. And, of course, UMPCPortal covers all of the above (MIDs, UMPCs, Netbooks, and Convertible Tablet Netbooks).

Either way it looks like you’re really looking for a Netbook or Subnotebook (don’t know if they call them that anymore) since you’re looking for “a least a 7″ screen” and physical keyboard (on an 7″ screened device we’re already really looking at quite a bulky device).

The TC91 and Dell Mini 9 aren’t really UMPCs though, rather Netbooks.

Second, OS matters. It has to run something Unix/Linux based, with support from the hardware vendor. I would prefer Mac OS X, if it ran on a device that meets my other specifications, but it doesn’t (not with support from Apple). I may toy with a non-vendor supported Ubuntu variant (like Eeebuntu), but I don’t want to have to depend on it. Oh, and, among Linuxes, I’m not a big Suse fan. I haven’t tried Linpus, but I’m willing to.

Third, input matters. It has to have a physical keyboard. A touch screen and tablet mode would be VERY nice (true tablet (like a Samsung Q1 Ultra), or a convertible tablet (like the EeepC T91), are equally acceptable). If it’s going to be a thumb keyboard, it has to be a good one, but I can live with that for a while.

Fourth, display matters. It has to have at least a 7″ screen. The N810 is too small for me, for heavier/on-going work. This, combined with the gadget bag size limit, pretty much means 7″ screen or 8.9″ (9″) screen.

Fifth, connectivity matters. It has to have vendor supported internal wifi. (I mention this one specifically because it disqualifies the Ubuntu version of the Raon Everun Digital Note … which I already have, and am kinda disappointed by, for this exact reason)

(those are in no particular order, I’m not sure how I would order them if I had to put them into an order of importance)

So, the fact that I can get a full size laptop, from Walmart, for under $500 … doesn’t matter. It doesn’t have vendor supported linux, and it wont fit in my gadget bag.

The Dell Mini 9 looks interesting. The new HP that has Ubuntu looks interesting. But what looks REALLY interesting are the new version of the Classmate 2Go looks interesting (the convertible tablet model), and the EeePC T91 (if it has a Linpus version). With a Linpus version, the T91 will probably hit all of my requirements. If the Classmate comes with fully supported Ubuntu … then that might be the end of the discussion

(it also somewhat depends on how soon the T91 and the Classmate come out with the respective linux versions)