Ignoring your phone and your PC/Netbook/UMPC, what other gadgets do you regularly carry? Do you use a navigation device? A personal media player? How about an E-Reader?A lot of people consider the MID space between a 4″ and a 6″ screen to be dead and that MIDs have no chance but these people are forgetting the gadgets already in that space. To those people I say; Forget this idea of a MID being just a small PC or web device and look at the other successful products already in that space and imagine what you can do when you combine them with mobile internet access.
Assume ‘ regularly’ is more than once a week and vote below. Choose as many options as you like. I think I’ve included the main ones and if you don’t carry any other gadgets, let us know with the ‘none’ option. Feel free to discuss in the comments.
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May 9th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Corrected typo in first para: “between a 3″ and a 6″ screen” changed to: “between a 4″ and a 6″ screen”
Reply (threaded)
May 9th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Hope, my Sharp Zaurus, which is slightly below 4″ does still fit into that class of devices. My former Psion S5 surely did. I almost never leave my appartment without a small clampshell computer. My phone is rather an add-on to that computer. I am looking forward to the UMID M1. That is exactly the kind of device I am looking for since I put my Psion out of use.
Joern
Reply (threaded)
May 9th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
And another edit: Added ‘none’ option. Added within 3 minutes of posting the poll so it won’t affect results.
Reply (threaded)
May 9th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
I am one of those that do believe the 4-6″ space of MIDs/Umpc’s is dead in the modern smartphone era. Two years ago Apple proved that internet on a mobile device does not require a desktop OS. As a matter of fact they proved something even stronger – that a desktop OS is not the appropriate solution for mobile internet. That’s it, at that day the 4-6 space of “desktop” MIDs just died…
As a matter of fact, these kind of devices never really created a healthy demand for themselves to begin with. The reason to me is clear: There was a discrepancy between the OS they used and the input methods they provided.
Proof? Sony developed an engineering marvel – the UX – and it didn’t sell. They were pioneers but for the wrong reason. When they created the P it got backordered even though they where not the pioneers there (Acer was).
You want another proof? Nokia built tablets based on Linux. They didn’t sell. Acer created the Eee at the same price point with the Nokia’s and it changed the computing industry.
The lesson is always the same. Every type of OS, every type of computing scenario requires the appropriate input method.
Back to your poll, your question comes with a twist. You say, imagine all other electronic devices that you may use daily. Wouldn’t it be great if they came with a browser as well? Of course it would, and most probably we will see this sooner or later! But that doesn’t prove anything about the fate of current day’s MID/umpcs. Because no MID can successfully replace a DSLR, a Kindle or a PSP. At least, they cannot replace them in a better way than an iPhone or a Pre can.
So if you define a Kindle+browser a MID, then yes there is hope. If on the other hand a MID is a 4-6 tablet with a desktop OS then no – there is no hope
Reply (threaded)
May 9th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
The input method is indeed the striking point. All these mini tablets do not sell and never will. The only appropriate input method is a keyboard. Psion proved more than 10 years ago that it’s possible to make small clamshell style keyboard devices you could use to write even long texts in a very convenient way. I wrote entire textbook chapters on my Psion. The Psion PDAs didn’t disappear because of bad sale but because of bad marketing. If we had a MID in a similar formfactor it would be a success. Of course not with a desktop OS but some kind of an instant-on OS that requires no booting. Psion already had that.
Joern
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May 9th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Joern,
I agree with you 100% the problem with all UMPC’s is the lack of usable keyboard. Also for a UMPC to differentiate between a small laptop it must be small enough to be carried without a bag, namely able to fit in an indside jacket pocket. I to wrote long reports on the Psion 5mx keyboard which was only 6.9″ x 3.6″ in size! The keys were great!
Now imagine if a modern UMPC used the Psion type shape and keyboard but improved on it. Most jacket pockets can handle up to 4.25″ in width and 7.5″ in length; that extra space using the same Psion design would be perfect!
A modern Psion like that would do ok with Windows mobile but I also feel there is a strong market for a full desktop PC OS model. There are millions of business people whom need full windows for work so they carry a laptop and a Psion with full Windows would sell.
Chippy,
I do not think a 4.8″ Apple tablet would do that well. To me Iphones are phones not UMPC’s and they are still mainly a phone with some cool features. When I think of something that has a larger screen I would want it to be able to be a pocket laptop. A phone should be small, ultra thin, and not try to be something more like a computer.
Reply (threaded)
May 10th, 2009 at 4:07 am
“All these mini tablets do not sell and never will. The only appropriate input method is a keyboard”
Ironically you replied to a comment about the iphone, which is a mini tablet and sells extremely well. Without a keyboard
And Primaz is what we from OrigamiProject call a living joke. Him agreeing with you proves you wrong. It would be best if Chippy banned him.
“I do not think a 4.8″ Apple tablet would do that well.”
Iphone is almost 4.8 inches, and would be considered an Apple tablet
Reply (threaded)
May 10th, 2009 at 10:43 am
The iPhone screen is quite exactly 3.5″. From my point of view, MID stands for another class of devices. However, MIDs will have to compete with the iPhone.
Joern
May 11th, 2009 at 3:38 am
People whom ignore the fact that most people use full Windows OS software with a touch type keyboard, and somehow think UMPC’s that do not provide a keyboard will change human behavior is crazy. People want technology to enhance their work not make it harder. Typing a long report using thumb input or pen input is just not what people want. The sales results since UMPC’s prove that and the reason origami project died is the same issue there is no big demand. There is something they call Free Speach in the USA, ever heard of it?
May 9th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Thanks John. Just the sort of discussion i was hoping for by putting the poll up.
I dont agree with a lot of what youve said and was going to write a lenghty response, until i read your last line. Are you confuusing MIDs, 4-6inch consumer focused devices with a dedicated os, with UMPCs, the devices that generally use a desktop os?
My point is that web is not the only reason to make a mobile internet device. Photography, reading, media and text comms are just other examples. The iphone IS a mid, even by Intels standards. (They stated that recently)
My question to you is, do you think a 4.8 inch Apple tablet with fast processor and 5mp cam, 720p recording, sunlight readable hi-res scree and turn-by-tun navigation could successful?
Reply (threaded)
May 9th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Of course MID need iphone-type UI without dependence if it uses Linux or XP – for OS and most used programs.
But desktop OS on the MID is great because you can use the whole variety of programs – you are SURE that you can do ANY task on your MID (slower than on the desktop, and excluding compicated tasks):
- use any usb device (do you have linux drivers for wimax dongles?!)
- open, edit and convert file of any type
etc.
Reply (threaded)
May 9th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
about the physical keyboard
i believe, may be its a wishful thinking, that capasitive screens can replace it totally
there is one moment which isn’t developed at all (T9 on phones is a very beginning) – the on-screen keyboard layout can be dynamic (both – size and functions of the keys). For example, after you type “bec” two big buttons appear: “because ” and “become ” or you can press standard keys
May 9th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
“Two years ago Apple proved that internet on a mobile device does not require a desktop OS.”
Funny, since one of Apple’s main selling points when they first revealed the iPhone was that they were using the same OS as on their desktop, and it’s just a pared-down version of that.
Reply (threaded)
May 9th, 2009 at 8:35 pm
The success of the iPhone is more then just that, it’s the fact that it is a phone and an iPod, it’s the price point, and it’s the apps. The iphone isn’t even a good web browser, that’s why there are so many apps that replace what you would normally go to the web for. I even grab my N810 rather use the iphone when I want to surf the web.
Also there is no rule that says an OS need only be mobile or desktop, and in fact those are ill defined, and I am not sure you know what you mean by desktop OS. The term ‘desktop OS’ was used back in the day to compare windows to dos, and a linx terminal versus running X windows.
I attribute the ‘mobile’ feeling to how effectively the applications use the space they have and not so much the OS, or how a desktop organizes and launches your apps.
Anyway for a lot of these products price is the main bottleneck.
Reply (threaded)
May 13th, 2009 at 12:19 am
I think we should challenge the notion that we need a keyboard.
Speech recognition and handwriting input are just as effective in the right scenarios. I find that I am never in a position to use a keyboard when I want to input something.
I write my software designs and architecture descriptions in the car on the way to work/home using speech recognition.
I scribble to-do notes on the tablet’s screen while I am waiting in lines to get on the train.
I record what my wife says when she gives me a birthday list, because she speaks faster than I can type or write.
I try to make the technology solution part of the background. No one wants to wait while I get my system setup to take notes. Of course I use a keyboard to type, but I usually sitting at one of my workstations when I do. The method of input is a modal operation depending on my location and type of activity.
-tf
Reply (threaded)
May 9th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
I’m using the Aigo MID as a replacement for my laptop everywhere (and when) I wouldn’t like to have to carry it, including around my home.
I’m also using it as my only PMP.
As a PC, it fulfills 90% of my personal needs: browsing, e-mail, posts on forums.
Of course I don’t, and couldn’t, use it for my work, except occasionally for checking my e-mails (I’ve a laptop provided by my company, but would prefer a good and much lighter netbook).
But for my personal use, I’ve to switch to a bigger PC only when I need to work on larger documents, or on photos. However I’ve installed the GIMP on the Aigo, and it’s powerful enough to make the conversion from the raw format of my camera to jpeg, and to make some improvements, cropping, resizing – I wouldn’t really like to carry a laptop on holydays trips. The form factor of the Aigo is perfect for this usage, because I can carry it in my pocket or put it in the bag of my reflex.
I just would want a more powerful CPU, a bigger SSD, a better keyboard and a slightly larger screen with a 1024×600 resolution: let’s say the size of the UMID with a 5.6″ screen able to open up to 180 degrees
As long as the UMID or some better option is not available in Europe, the Aigo will be my only everyday companion…
Reply (threaded)
May 9th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
The Nokia Internet Tablet is a nice device… I happen to believe the size and form factor (slide out keyboard) is an appealing design.
When the processing power is there, this “dead space” will thrive.
Reply (threaded)
May 9th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
I agree that most people will consider MIDs dead. Unfortunately most people wont actually understand what MIDs are used for. The point being, is technology driving the market or is consumer needs the driver. I actually think that its technology and therefore most people wont understand the MIDs usage/capabilities.
I personally have a HTC 7501. Yes its outdated BUT it does what I need it to do (and believe me I’m a heavy user of web, email, word and excell out of the office). It’s perfect for my out of office needs, small – 5″, 3G, camera, keyboard, web and remote access to my office server.
Currently the market is tending towards the 10″ plus devices. Why, well because they are cheaper and lets face it, most home/office users dont really need all the raw power of a desktop pc. They buy large form factor MIDS because they are cheaper and fullfill their personal needs.
I’m not a fan of integrating phones and Mids. Three main reasons, screen size, battery life and I’ve dropped my phone several times. A phone I can pick up relatively cheaply now a MID…Ouch.
Previously I too had a Psion 3 and 5mx. So I know exactly what I need for out of home. So I’m all for MIDs with small form factor.
Reply (threaded)
May 9th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
wow John, for a lot of “matter of facts” & “proofs” you sure do get your facts wrong.
Acer created the Eee? hhmmm, interesting.
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May 9th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
I picked 4 things, but there are all from the same 1 device. Nokia N810.
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May 9th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
Nice one! It will be interesting to see if the next gen N810 ticks a few more on the list. 720p recording for example.
Steve
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May 9th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
i have a computer that i installed in my car a few years ago. 7 inch touch screen built into the dash for input. It runs music, videos, nav, and internet when tethered to my phone.
I love the thing also as it provides me with endless oppertunities for tinkering around with new functionality that i want to add. Currently I’m setting it up with a modified bluetooth stack so I can trick my phone into thinking it’s a headset.
Reply (threaded)
May 9th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
What we must be mindful of is that MID these are niche products. Not every Bob and MAry is going to want one. But hose peole who want the features that the MIDs have versus smartphones will buy them.
I wanted a screen over 3.5 inches, very good browser, PIM apps, office/business applications, very long battery life and good speakers.
There are no phones I know of that offer over 4 days of battery for intermittent phone, internet and multimedia use while also having a greater than 3.8 inch screen with over 640×480 res.
A netbook may do all that but I can’t put those in my pants pocket (I do not wear cargoes) and they are not that cheap.
Hence I have an N810 and a E51 phone.
Another thing is that the Nokia N8×0 did sell. They sold a lot. Especially when people thought that they were going out of stock and the price was between 200 and 300 USD. The outlets would say in stock one day and then within a week out of stock. This happen consistently for perhaps 2 months. I know because I was one that boiught mine when the price dipped.
So in addition to the lack of a keyboard, the price when compared to the netbooks is another significant reason for the perceived slow sales of MIDs.
A MID should not cost more than $400 US. Ideally I think it should be in the 250 to 350 area.
Reply (threaded)
May 9th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
I agree that these devices are relatively niche (compared to smartphones and laptops)
A misconception that you’ll probably agree with – You have to be the ‘best’ or ‘de facto’ to be a success. It’s niche but it’s a big niche when you add up the separate products.
I write about that here:
http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/12/smart-high-quality-dedicated-focused-and-thats-just-the-buyers
Reply (threaded)
May 9th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
I only carry a ‘dumbphone’ and a 9″ 3G netbook. I’d *like* to have a pocketable UMPC (the market is getting there soon-ish with a variation I’ll want) and an e-book reader, like the Kindle 2 or Kindle DX, but there just is no availability (no Kindle in Europe).
Reply (threaded)
May 9th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
It’s ok for me with all this booming 4,6″ MID in the market that now running on Full OS desktop Windows.
Infact, its OS with NO LIMIT support would be very usefull for me doing upgrade to the more and more advance software that available for next years (Thanks to Windows!)
My ideal 4″ PMP/MID/UMPC/DIGICAMERA/WEBTABLET/NAV/PHONE = etc would be combination between :
- AIGO for the SIZE and KEYBOARD form factor
- ASUS R50a for the all HARDWARE specs inside (+ FLASH & better Upgrade to the back camera for taking pictures)
I just need more advanced improvement on 2 Important things :
- Longer & Longer & Longer on BATTERY SAVING technology
- Firmware 3G/HSDPA Modem upgrade to make any GSM PHONE CALLS possible
Price? That’s another problem!
Reply (threaded)
May 9th, 2009 at 9:42 pm
The main reason why UMPC’s and MIDS have done poorly is that they not the right size and do not have a keyboard. The past years have proven that UMPC’s and MIDS have not sold well and thus prove those current size and shape devices just are not what people want outside of this community.
There are millions whom would buy a basic jacket pocket laptop if it had a normal keyboard and that is what UMPC’s should adapt to serve that market. A modern Psion 5mx type UMPC that ran full Windows would sell very well for the millions of business users whom need a laptop for work but would rather have it small enough to fit in a large jacket pocket yet having a keyboard that they could type on reasonably well like the Psion 5mx provided.
It is not about price but more about the need of the computer. Full Windows type programs need a keyboard to use them for most people. A UMPC that provided that would sell well out needing to be an ultra cheap under $600.
Reply (threaded)
May 9th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
Hi Primaz,
Agree with you about wanting a UMPC in a Psion 5 size.
I don’t believe the keyboard is the only limiting factor, rather it is a combination.
When someone wants a PMP with Internet included to be able to download tracks, then it is a MID. The Viliv S5 fulfills this role. Unfortunately due to the OS it uses, many of us look at it as a UMPC, but without the keyboard we are turned off.
I would like a Viliv S5 with a Psion keyboard for my UMPC, but I’m sure that many people who carry around a MP3 player would be happy with one of these.
I could use it as part of a two-device strategy (or carry a BT keyboard and USB-LAN dongle.
Reply (threaded)
May 9th, 2009 at 11:46 pm
Vakeros,
I guess it depends on what you plan to do with a UMPC. To me the MIDS and UMPC’s small enough to fit in a jacket are all thumb based or pen input which is not practical if you plan on doing real PC work. Those types of computers face tough competition with pocket PC’s that are cheap, have instant on, often have an integraded phone, and longer battery life as they do not run Windows. To me yes they have full Windows but it is not pratical to use full Windows for real PC work without a keyboard. So if all you do are the same types of things that a pocket pc does but you have the abilit to run full PC software yet are hindered with no instant on, short battery life, and still need another computer to do your full Windows work then that is why people say they are expensive toys.
To me when you have a full PC OS I would expect to be able to use it as a laptop replacement and my sole primary computer. Thus to me a keyboard is a must. The market for a pocket UMPC with a keyboard like a Psion 5mx is huge but I believe it needs to have the keyboard integrated to be popular. Adding dongles it not ideal and some sport coats and business suits only have one large inside pocket so carrying a BT keyboad is not then practical. Until UMPC’s or MIDS design models that are more like the Psion 5mx so that they have an integrated keyboard which can make the computer able to be your sole mobile work PC they will continue to be viewed as gadgets and never gain big sales.
Reply (threaded)
May 10th, 2009 at 8:45 am
Second this, I’m all the same idea with you.
Only, Make sure to keep use an Average CPU speed when designed an UMPC/Mid as long as able to operate any OS Desktop programs easily.
I found just nothing necessary to bring an overly horse mighty power CPU in such kind of small screen.
It’s no longer mobile and efficient if we should carry the 4″ UMPC in travelling along with the docked + external big-thumb-keyboard + should find any external monitor to do any desk job.
There’s none such a 4 / 5 ” UMPC/Mid could replace a notebook or even Desktop all in One PC. OK for most MOBILE-scenarios, but UMPC/MID still have LIMITS and they just have to acted as the way they are
Well, an EXCEPTION if they could find anything Innovations with the BATTERY LIFE improvement than sacrifice it, to make its all worthed..
That should be another case!
May 10th, 2009 at 10:44 am
I think anyone who expects a netbook or MID (meaning the pocketables, not the larger UMPCs) to be a desktop replacement, or even a laptop replacement, really has inappropriate expectations.
Just because they can run the same software doesn’t mean that they’re designed around the same use model. It’s not just that they don’t have a big screen. Their intended use and market is for use on the common light weight tasks (email, web browsing, IM, light document viewing/editing). They’re not intended for the heavier weight tasks (CPU or GPU intensive games, photoshop or CAD work, things that require tons of screen realestate, RAM, etc.).
The fact that it runs a full PC OS isn’t so that you can do EVERYTHING a desktop, laptop, or all-in-one PC can do. It’s so that, while you’re going to only be using applications for lighter weight tasks, they’ll be the same exact apps you also run on your desktop for those same lighter weight tasks.
So, whenever I see someone complain about needing more CPU to run desktop apps more easily, or that it could never replace a notebook or desktop, etc. … it just makes me think about how they just don’t get the mobile device market.
(and, thanks to the march of bloatware, waiting for Moore’s Law to give you pocketable devices that are as powerful as today’s desktops wont help, because by the time that happens, the desktops of that era will still be much more powerful than the pocketables)
May 10th, 2009 at 4:09 am
“The main reason why UMPC’s and MIDS have done poorly is that they not the right size and do not have a keyboard”
That may be A reason, but it is not THE reason.
Marketing and availability are bigger reasons. People can’t buy them if they don’t know about them, or can’t get them in stores.
We’ve explained this to you before.
“The market for a pocket UMPC with a keyboard like a Psion 5mx is”
Nonexistent. Any keyboard that small would be too small.
Reply (threaded)
May 10th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Sorry Techni,
whereas I agree with you about your main point. The reality is a keyboard the size of a Psion 5mx isn’t too small. It is a brilliant keyboard, still not bettered after almost 15 years. The possibilities for a UMPC with this is great.
However this article is about MIDs. Primaz doesn’t get the differentiation. I personally want an all-in-one UMPC which would also do everything a MID can do – but I also see there are millions of people who don’t need/want this. They want a lightweight OS, which is instant-on and simple to do only the things they want it to do.
Viliv S5 is confusing because it is a MID with a Full OS, which allows it to be used as a UMPC. A hybrid with is Cube UI.
Reply (threaded)
May 11th, 2009 at 3:29 am
I disagree it is marketing. I’ve seen UMPC’s and MIDS at Fry’s and other stores, I’ve also seen many magazine ads too. People just do not see enough value in buying one when they do not have a keyboard.
Vakeros, to me the lines between MIDS and UMPC’s are often blurry as some MIDS have the same power. To me if it runs a Full Windows OS then it really needs a touch type keyboard to sell and attract people to buy it. If it does not have full Windows and just runs Linux or Windows Mobile then maybe a keyboard is not critical but still would help differentiate between smart phones and PDA options.
May 11th, 2009 at 4:12 am
primaz:
Are you saying desktop Linux is less keyboard intensive than desktop Windows? o_O what are you smoking?
Or are you saying the mobile linux efforts, like Maemo and Android, have much better success in creating keyboardless solutions, than Windows has?
May 11th, 2009 at 9:21 am
I am more of an MS fan but true I guess Linux is another desktop OS. It does seem to me that more Linux people seem to be ok with thumb input? What do you think?
May 10th, 2009 at 5:56 am
(I’m the John that’s been on here for a while, but not the one who posted above, so I’m changing my “Name” to be my more common nickname, johnkzin)
I voted for “None” and “MID”.
I _used_ to carry a Nokia N810 everywhere, and use it for all of my mobile internet. But in the end, I need my non-phone device to be bigger (as I’ve said many times). So, my phone has to be a MID level of functional pocketable device, and my non-phone has to be a “middle size” (7-10 inch screen) device. For the phone/pocketable, right now, that means an Android phone.
But, that said, I don’t think the pocketable MID is dead. There are two developments that keep me from thinking that:
1) including HSPA modems in the MID (unlike the Nokia 770, N800 and N810).
2) Google Voice (or, if you don’t care about true SMS type messaging, Skype and the other comparable services can fit in here … but not for me, those other services didn’t pan out for me).
With those two things together, you can pretty much use a MID as a phone. So, you can have all of the options and advantages of a MID (real OS, whether that’s a linux or windows preference), full phone functionality, and all in one device (so you don’t have to carry two).
To me, that means the MID is still a viable platform. But, without that combination, I would probably consider the MID to be a dead end platform. And, it may get me back into using the Nokia IT’s, once the HSPA model is out.
Reply (threaded)
May 10th, 2009 at 11:48 am
I think that MIDs are dead if they only try to compete with smartphones.
That’s mainly a marketing issue: mobile operators don’t want to cut in the profits they are doing on voice calls. And if a solution allowing users owning only a data plan to make VoIP calls on mobile networks is popularized, that’s what is going to happen.
As long as you’ll have to hack the system and take the risk to break the contract with your operator, it will not be a solution for normal customers. It’s the case in France and, I guess, in most other European countries. If mobile VoIP is only used by a small community of geeks, the loss of profit for the mobile operators is so small that perhaps they will not invest in the fraud management solutions which would allow them to detect and stop VoIP usages, but these solutions exist.
And, as a smartphone, a MID with decent screen and keyboard allowing a full OS usage will always seem too bulky.
The MIDs will only survive if they appear to be the best complement to a basic mobile phone, allowing you to carry your PC / PMP in your pocket, and making the smartphone unuseful.
An instant on OS is not a real need, as with a good battey optimization some MIDs are able to stay in sleep mode for a very long time, so you don’t need to shutdown your MID when you put it in your pocket.
Now some MIDs have proven that they can support a full desktop OS while staying pocketables, and with a good battery life (see the UMID and the Viliv MIDs). With some improvements of their ergonomy, a lot of users will be able to use them as a replacement for a netbook in 90% of their usages. The only real innovation brought by the netbooks was their cost; now they tend to increase their size, their weight and their price, and there is not such a gap between a high-end netbook and a low-end 12″ laptop. In fact, netbooks ARE low-end laptops. But I think that there is some place in the market for smaller devices bringing all the functions of a PC, filling the gap between smartphones and netbooks.
Traditional UMPCs have failed because they were too big (needed to be carried in a bag) and too expansive. MIDs can succeed because they are really pocketable and cheaper.
Reply (threaded)
May 10th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
re: That’s mainly a marketing issue: mobile operators don’t want to cut in the profits they are doing on voice calls. And if a solution allowing users owning only a data plan to make VoIP calls on mobile networks is popularized, that’s what is going to happen.
The carrier “Zer01″ is trying to embrace the trend. They’re an MVNO, riding atop AT&T and some regional GSM carriers. They give unlimited data only service for $70/mo, and they have a VOIP app they’ve ported to some platforms (WinMo for starters). They plan to support more phone platforms over time. From there, you get unlimited VOIP, data, etc. So, there’s one counter to your assertion.
Further, once 4G comes out, it’s all going to be VOIP. Both LTE and WiMAX, as far as I’ve heard, have no “voice only” nor “SMS/MMS” type service channels. It’s all data. So, even the big carriers are heading in this direction.
re: a MID with decent screen and keyboard allowing a full OS usage will always seem too bulky.
The Nokia tablets completely refute that. While they’re at the large end of the phone spectrum (5″ x 3″), they’re quite suitable as pocketable devices. And they are also quite capable full OS devices, with outstanding screens. And the N810 has a slide out keyboard. If the N810 had a GSM radio built in, it would be quite acceptable as a fully featured phone. The “N900″ will have HSPA, but I’d still love to see an NIT with full phone features.
re: The MIDs will only survive if they appear to be the best complement to a basic mobile phone, allowing you to carry your PC / PMP in your pocket, and making the smartphone unuseful.
As I’ve said many times … I will not carry two pocketable devices. A MID that cannot be used as a phone (either natively, or via HSPA+GoogleVoice) has no place in my pocket. Similarly, a “basic mobile phone”, that can’t perform all of the tasks I’d want on a MID, also has no place in my pocket. It must be both. At the moment, the only thing that comes close to doing everything I want is the G1. But, as the HSPA+Linux MIDs come out, that will probably start to change.
Reply (threaded)
May 10th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
I can type faster and with less mistakes on the N810 on-screen keyboard than the hardware keyboard.
Is it because the hardware keyboard is a bad design? Of the on-screen keyboard is a very good design.
So while it’s ok to say MIDs need a keyboard if that’s your preference. Not having one could very will be alright for some other people.
Reply (threaded)
May 11th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
Not having a keyboard is completely fine for a MID. It comes back to definitions which are a confusing blend of hardware and software.
If you have the right User Interface (UI) then you can achieve most tasks without a keyboard.
However some tasks require at least a decent thumbboard, and others you really want a decent keyboard. For these tasks I think you want a UMPC. Similiar in many respects to a MID, the difference being the extra things you can do with it. Where Viliv S5 confuses is that it has a UI for keyboard-less use, but has hardware and uses an OS which gives options for all a UMPC can. Does this make it a UMPC? If it had a keyboard I would think of it as such. Strange isn’t it!
I do believe though that it is aimed as an advanced MID. Viliv seem to be gearing the X7 and S7 as UMPCs. This is also about what connectivity options there are, and which means of input is generic (as opposed to optional.)
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May 10th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
I’d prefer not to watch a movie on a 3.2 inch screen.
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May 10th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Or surf the web, and view docoments (pdf, doc, xls) on 480×320 pixels, now that I have a choice.
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May 10th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
where to place the good, old jornada 720 hpc? because it’s either mobilphone+hpc or phone+netbook
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May 11th, 2009 at 3:33 am
I owned a Jornada 720 and its touch type keyboard made it a more useful PDA to enable decent use of doing the handful of MS applications and longer e-mails, etc. than a normal palm PDA. I think a modern version would create a market both for a Windows Mobile OS version but to me there is a larger market if they made a modern one with full Windows OS and then that would be a great UMPC to me.
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May 11th, 2009 at 8:06 am
I’m not sure the MID “space” is dead. Sometimes you need a more screen than it’s on a phone (GPS navigation, video player…) and you still don’t need “full” computer.
Truth is at least for book reading, watching video on the go and navigation MID sized devices are much better than phone or notebook/netbook.
I have HTC Diamond phone and while it can handle video, navigation and books I almost never use it for that, even though it has bigger and better screen than most phones on the market, it’s still small and that, combined with simple fact that I need my phone for work and I don’t want to drain the battery is the reason I need some other device for such things.
My notebook or my netbook (Asus EEE) are also not usable for this tasks. They both suck as navigational devices, not only because of lack of build in GPS, but also because of not as good software for navigation, lack of touch screen, size (car and on the go use) and battery life. Book reading is also not as good on such devices, they are just too big and heavy (even netbook) to be readers. Additionally I just don’t like the clamshell form factor for reading. And while notebooks/netbooks handle video just finr, using such device on the go is again not as good (for me at least), the size and battery life is just not as usable.
So at the end I need something else, and at the moment I use my HTC Advantage for all this and more and when some other MID sized device with more power will be available I’ll will definitely be interested – so rumored Apple MID would be very interested even though I don’t use Apple stuff.
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November 3rd, 2009 at 6:20 pm
I am still looking for a PSION 5MX Replacement.
Nokia/Symbian S80 are no longer made. And were 10% to small.
So I am currently using an HP Netbook with Linux and a psion emulator.
Always on the lookout for a decent PIM software.
I find S60 (N81 + BT Keyboard) way to restrictive.
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November 3rd, 2009 at 6:24 pm
P.S. Andriod on top of a HTC Diamond Pro Looked good. But then not 100% working. As I liked the Idea of a linux Phone with an ok keyboard.
G1 Keyboard is not up to scratch.
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November 3rd, 2009 at 9:00 pm
Really? to me, the G1 is the only acceptable pocketable keyboard I’ve ever used. Good feedback on whether or not you’ve clicked something, not too stiff (doesn’t require too much pressure), good layout (5 rows). The only thing I’d change is adding an escape key and a control key (or two — one on each side). Though, on a larger device I’d expect the keys to be larger, as well.
Every other pocketable keyboard lacks an important aspect:
1) feedback to indicate a key press
2) pressure required to generate a key press
3) 5 rows and/or dedicated number keys
4) overall space (of the blackberry and the nokia e61i/e71 keyboards I’ve used, I found them to be too cramped)
To me, the G1 is the standard to which other mobile device keyboards need to live up to … and none have.
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